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Post by Palagrin on Aug 26, 2011 17:39:45 GMT
That argument can be used for anything- it's not specific to Christianity. For example, if your parents are strong atheists, then the chance you're a strong atheist too is quite high.
Whilst I have grown up in a Christian family, I have found my own way to God- I was about 12/13 when I started thinking about it seriously. Before that, it was just something I did. So I did decide to become a Christian, even though I had been brought up in a Christian family previously.
You're probably right, but I have personally never heard of miracles/things happening outside of the Christian church...xD as I said, very subjective.
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Post by Matt on Aug 26, 2011 18:47:48 GMT
How do I get a copy of the Bible if I can't afford to buy one ? Can you be Christian without having read the Bible? If you really want a copy, give me your address (pm) and I'll send you one. I've also got lots of leaflets and a guide to the Bible I can get off a guy at church. The Bible can be as relevant as you like, but yeah, taken with a pinch of salt. You're probably right, but I have personally never heard of miracles/things happening outside of the Christian church...xD as I said, very subjective. Depends what you mean by Miracle. Chances are the ones you've heard of are obviously inside the church. ~ The man, who's daughter (I think) was killed in the IRA blasts in Manchester, forgiving the people who killed her is a miracle, whether or not it's a Catholic 'OFFICIAL' miracle is a totally different question. I think it was posted on CF, but did you guys see that video from the Christian camp?
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Post by Madi The Unicorn on Aug 26, 2011 19:47:29 GMT
I haven't got the patience to read through all the questions and then there answers right at this moment, so I just want to jump in and say thanks to Wanderer for her answers, and I'll come back and catch up on this thread later.
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dan95
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Post by dan95 on Aug 26, 2011 21:10:56 GMT
How do I get a copy of the Bible if I can't afford to buy one ? Can you be Christian without having read the Bible? If you really want a copy, give me your address (pm) and I'll send you one. I've also got lots of leaflets and a guide to the Bible I can get off a guy at church. The Bible can be as relevant as you like, but yeah, taken with a pinch of salt. You're probably right, but I have personally never heard of miracles/things happening outside of the Christian church...xD as I said, very subjective. Depends what you mean by Miracle. Chances are the ones you've heard of are obviously inside the church. ~ The man, who's daughter (I think) was killed in the IRA blasts in Manchester, forgiving the people who killed her is a miracle, whether or not it's a Catholic 'OFFICIAL' miracle is a totally different question. I think it was posted on CF, but did you guys see that video from the Christian camp?[/quote] I fount a copy of New Testaments and Psalms on a shelf in my room I didn't realise I had will that do for like starting to learning about Christianity ?
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Post by Eni on Aug 27, 2011 0:27:12 GMT
Jehovah's witnesses refuse to have blood transfusions because if they are supposed to die then God will decide that. [ I can totally understand this ] Why's this not the same for most christians? If I'm correct that's not the reason JWs won't have blood tranfusions, it's to do with the fact that your body and soul or one and the same. But regardless, (I don't believe that) and I also wouldn't believe we should sit there and let a tiger eat us, or our house burn down with us in it or some disease kill us. God gave us capabilities, you could easily use the parable of the talents to say, he wants us to use them. Yes, but this is not something that is linked purely to religion, it is linked to morals ingeneral, prejudices in general, political ideals etc. The way you're brought up will effect you. It's very complicated, some people will find themselves agreeing with their parents's views, others will find them rejecting it because they hated their parents or something. Whatever the outcome we're really formed as people by those around us as we grow up, that may determine our opinion on religion, or eating meat, or cattle rearing, whatever it affects, I don't see a better alternative atm. You can't take children away from their parents ...unless your Stalinist Russia.
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Lemonfluff
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Post by Lemonfluff on Aug 27, 2011 0:37:26 GMT
Thanks Wandera and Palagrin and Eni!! for answering my rather badly phrased questions xD Christianity doesn't claim to be believed in; people simply see Christ and then believe, if that makes sense. Christianity is a whole lot more than just a religion; it's a way of life. And the other thing about Christianity is that it doesn't force you to believe, or punish you when you don't; so the people who DO believe, they believe for their own reasons (most probably subjective evidence). Also, I have never heard of miraculous things happening to followers of other religions, but I have seen plenty during my time as a Christian. Again, as Wanderer said, it's all about subjectivity and subjective evidence. I'll look at the answers properly later but for now I just want to say that in my experience of Christianity, I have found that they try to push you into it, alot. And a key tool they use is guilt which I really disagree with. And it seems to me that saying that you would go to hell if you don't believe /is/ a pretty big punishment and is quite a big thing if you genuinely believe in it. But that's just my personal opinion :S Um, I'm not gonna lie, I'm confused about what you're asking. But yes, you have a choice to believe, free will and all that. Could you rephrase that question? *is stupid* Ah what I meant by this is that I don't think you can choose to believe something, you either believe it or not. I think you can want to believe something and try to convince yourself (like fairies or something) but actually truly accepting or believing in something is an entirely different matter. Because obviously belief is such a big part of this (or probably any) religion I'd assume you guys see it as a choice or acceptance but personally no matter who had I've tried to accept it, I've never really believed in Jesus being the son of God, although I do believe that there is a God. The more I explain this the more I realise that I'm not really sure what I wanted out of you guys and some of these were kinda pointless questions :/ Thanks for taking the time to go through them all EDIT: Sorry I hadn't read far enough ahead to thank you Eni so I've added it now with !! for emphasis xD
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Post by Eni on Aug 27, 2011 0:39:57 GMT
If you really want a copy, give me your address (pm) and I'll send you one. I've also got lots of leaflets and a guide to the Bible I can get off a guy at church. The Bible can be as relevant as you like, but yeah, taken with a pinch of salt. You're probably right, but I have personally never heard of miracles/things happening outside of the Christian church...xD as I said, very subjective. Depends what you mean by Miracle. Chances are the ones you've heard of are obviously inside the church. ~ The man, who's daughter (I think) was killed in the IRA blasts in Manchester, forgiving the people who killed her is a miracle, whether or not it's a Catholic 'OFFICIAL' miracle is a totally different question. I think it was posted on CF, but did you guys see that video from the Christian camp? I fount a copy of New Testaments and Psalms on a shelf in my room I didn't realise I had will that do for like starting to learning about Christianity ?[/quote] But you'll miss out on all the raping and pillaging! I'm not kidding, so much rape, and posting of dismembered body parts in the old testament. The old testament is important in puts the new into context. It shows the history of the jews, why Jesus would have acted in certain ways, the significance in everything he did (him basically rewriting their entire religion) and the completion of Gods plan, him fulfilling everything the prophets said would happen. In general though it's a lot harder to read than the new testament. The main part of the new testament is the gospels, four accounts of Jesus, accounts made by people who obviously thought very highly of him because they were persecuted and often killed for what they were saying. And historical accounts are things we are used to dealing with, we understand how to read them. For reading the old testament you really need an understand of the context it was created in. Looking at a history of oral tradition, looking at what histories were before the word 'trewe' was established in the 1700s. If someone asked me where to start reading in the bible I would definitely say the gospels. I'm not sure which ones, not Matthew, maybe Mark or Luke. John is nice but very poetic. I'd probably say read Mark first, and see what you think. I mean if nothing else people who read the gospels come away with a real sense that whatever Jesus was he was a good man, very wise and insightful, and really does offer a good way to lead your life regardless of whether you believe in God or not.
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liam.
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Post by liam. on Aug 27, 2011 3:41:08 GMT
I completely understand what your trying to say here, but this isn't just for christianity, or religion infact. Chances are, if you come from a christian family, your more likely to grow up a christian, but this is the same with any religion, or anything else really. If your dads a huge Manchester United fan, chances are you will be too. It's just the way that raising kids normally pans out.
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Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer on Aug 27, 2011 4:03:58 GMT
Thanks Wandera and Palagrin for answering my rather badly phrased questions xD Christianity doesn't claim to be believed in; people simply see Christ and then believe, if that makes sense. Christianity is a whole lot more than just a religion; it's a way of life. And the other thing about Christianity is that it doesn't force you to believe, or punish you when you don't; so the people who DO believe, they believe for their own reasons (most probably subjective evidence). Also, I have never heard of miraculous things happening to followers of other religions, but I have seen plenty during my time as a Christian. Again, as Wanderer said, it's all about subjectivity and subjective evidence. I'll look at the answers properly later but for now I just want to say that in my experience of Christianity, I have found that they try to push you into it, alot. And a key tool they use is guilt which I really disagree with. And it seems to me that saying that you would go to hell if you don't believe /is/ a pretty big punishment and is quite a big thing if you genuinely believe in it. But that's just my personal opinion :S I can see what your saying. I personally don't approve of the approach that a lot of Christians take when wanting to share their beliefs with other people. You come on too strongly = you push people away. Simple as that, and I totally sympathize... I've witnessed this many times. Um, I'm not gonna lie, I'm confused about what you're asking. But yes, you have a choice to believe, free will and all that. Could you rephrase that question? *is stupid* Ah what I meant by this is that I don't think you can choose to believe something, you either believe it or not. I think you can want to believe something and try to convince yourself (like fairies or something) but actually truly accepting or believing in something is an entirely different matter. Because obviously belief is such a big part of this (or probably any) religion I'd assume you guys see it as a choice or acceptance but personally no matter who had I've tried to accept it, I've never really believed in Jesus being the son of God, although I do believe that there is a God. Well, I think everyone has a choice. If you had a Christian upbringing, but then parted with it, then right there, you're choosing to not believe. You're not forcing yourself to not believe, right? It's the same the other way around. True acceptance vs. Wanting to accept IS a struggle for a lot of people. I know I grew up with wanting to accept Christ because my family did, and then I eventually I did. But I did because I truly believed, not because my parents did or my sister did or my friends did. God began to reveal Himself in several ways to me that made me confident about what I was believing in. It just varies for people I guess.
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Post by Eni on Aug 27, 2011 9:11:57 GMT
I'm actually really surprised by the number of Christians that are no this forum, the internet always feels like a very not-christian-friendly place (I mean I remember for ages on cherub the only two people who considered ourselves religious were Wearestardust (Naffly) and I (funnily enough the people others referred to as the slash sisters XP)). Yeah but it's really nice to have a thread like this not turn into one person being attacked by the rest of the forum. I guess as well as having an unusually high amount of Christians on it it also just shows that the teen book forum is made up of loads of lovely people <3.
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Post by Palagrin on Aug 27, 2011 9:16:11 GMT
Yeah, I completely agree with you Eni. It's great
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Lemonfluff
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Post by Lemonfluff on Aug 27, 2011 23:18:45 GMT
It's because we are all interested people who like debating xD (Even though this is a non-debating thread) so we listen to each others views and then respond. And we're all wonderful people xD
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Post by Tee Em on Aug 28, 2011 17:02:25 GMT
^ Me especially. xD
But we're all pretty rad, I must admit.
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Post by Michael on Aug 28, 2011 17:15:35 GMT
I'm actually really surprised by the number of Christians that are no this forum, the internet always feels like a very not-christian-friendly place (I mean I remember for ages on cherub the only two people who considered ourselves religious were Wearestardust (Naffly) and I (funnily enough the people others referred to as the slash sisters XP)). Yeah but it's really nice to have a thread like this not turn into one person being attacked by the rest of the forum. I guess as well as having an unusually high amount of Christians on it it also just shows that the teen book forum is made up of loads of lovely people <3. Oddly, I was reading through this and thinking exactly the same thing, which made me kinda proud. Without slating cf, the arguments go round in circles with a lack of respect ( and not really listening to the others opinion). This is really refreshing, and j think you kinda learn more from people explaining it in your language rather than official crap Again, the Internet normally lacks extremely religious people...
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Post by Madi The Unicorn on Aug 28, 2011 19:44:51 GMT
^ I also love that this thread has gone from questions to everyone being proud of the forum. :3 :L
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