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Post by Eni on Aug 24, 2011 20:25:49 GMT
If god loved us, yet homosexuality is a sin, then why the hell did he make us like that? If I was in your situation then maybe I'd share your opinion, but I really can't. EDIT: CRAP SORRY, this is Michael EDIT: MOVED MA MASSIVE POST ACROSS TO THE TOTHER THREAD 'CAUSE IT WAS MORE SUITED (in answer to Liam and partly Matt & Dan)The most common response I see to this is that 'homosexuality is not a choice' but this is not something I agree with. Luckily I think there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. As the banner I take to pride says 'God thinks you're fabulous'. ^_____^
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Post by Michael on Aug 24, 2011 21:02:58 GMT
If god loved us, yet homosexuality is a sin, then why the hell did he make us like that? If I was in your situation then maybe I'd share your opinion, but I really can't. EDIT: CRAP SORRY, this is Michael EDIT: MOVED MA MASSIVE POST ACROSS TO THE TOTHER THREAD 'CAUSE IT WAS MORE SUITED (in answer to Liam and partly Matt & Dan)The most common response I see to this is that 'homosexuality is not a choice' but this is not something I agree with. Luckily I think there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. As the banner I take to pride says 'God thinks you're fabulous'. ^_____^ You think people choose to be bullied for life, seperate from society and have a high suicide rate because of it? 0.o
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Post by Splungo on Aug 24, 2011 21:17:39 GMT
Sorry if it sounds mean, but to be frank, believing that homosexuality is a choice is completely stupid.
Surely if being straight comes naturally, being gay also comes naturally?
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Post by Eni on Aug 24, 2011 22:16:07 GMT
Heyheyhey! Did all of you miss the 'but this is not something I agree with' line!
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Post by Michael on Aug 24, 2011 22:47:46 GMT
I didn't miss it, I accepted that! i was more... wtf you think people choose it? [please explain]
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Post by Eni on Aug 25, 2011 0:20:40 GMT
I don't, I think it's ridiculous the idea that people chose whether to be gay or straight.
My own personal opinion is that people who think gay people choose to be gay consider sexuality to be like binary, (or tertiary if we include bisexuality) that people are either gay or straight, when in all honesty I think sexuality is a sliding scale and that labels like these should be done away with completely. The reason they will think people choose to be gay is that they have had sexual feelings for a member of the same sex but choose not to follow them, therefore consider the choice to be as easy for everyone. Not considering that they are just further to one side of the scale of sexuality than others.
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Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer on Aug 25, 2011 2:26:37 GMT
Madi, you asked a ton of questions and since I should actually be doing homework right now, I'll just answer a couple very crappily. Hopefully someone will come around and answer them better than I have. Since the bible is so old, why do you believe it so much? Since times have changed surely the majority of the rules should have changed The fact that the Bible is old doesn't really faze me. I believed in God first before I believed in the Bible - does that make sense? Because I believed in God, I believed that His word must be true, so then I believed the Bible was true. A lot of the stuff in the Bible IS outdated, I agree. If being gay is a sin, why is it? What is so wrong about loving someone? Absolutely nothing Personally, I am a gay-rights activist. But the fact that being gay is a sin isn't really a huge issue because like palagrin said, all sins are the same in God's eyes. Lying is a sin, I lie all the time, I'm on the same level as any gay person out there, and as long as you put your faith in Him, none of that really matters. Since there is no hard evidence to prove some of what happened when the Bible was written how can you be sure it really wasn't just a fable that people told their children, and different accounts of the same story got written down (which could account for the changes in some of the stories and what happened)? Like I said above, I believed in God before I believed in the Bible. I've felt God's love and have built that personal relationship with Him. I just know for myself that it's true, like a gut feeling. I can't really explain it D:> Why do bad things happen to people if God is here for us? Why do millions of people die from starvation? Why do Tsunami's occur and kill people? Why do all these things happen if God is in control? Why do children who have never done anything wrong in their lives die? Why do those people who are so selfless, and so loving for everyone around them still die? They're better than any of us because of the hard things they endure and yet they still die? I firmly believe that God does not want people to suffer. He created a perfect world, but once sin entered and tainted it, it brought pain, death, and suffering. The world changed with sin being in the world. If God can help us, why doesn't he when we need him most? This question is a lot tougher. I myself wonder all the time why He doesn't intervene. However the "intervention" that I have personally experienced has turned out to be much more powerful than anything physical. Of course, that probably doesn't answer the question... whatever. How do you know your religion is right? What if you die and you come to find you were wrong? Or that there isn't anything at all? To regurgitate what I already said because I'm unoriginal, I've felt God's power and seen how He's worked in my life. And if I die and come to find out I was wrong - then oopsies! I don't think that will happen though... me being Christian and all O.O What proof is there that Heaven or Hell exists? Why aren't we aware of these places? And if Hell is beneath the Earth, in the firey depths, why haven't P-waves or S-waves shown it? D: The Bible mentions their existence several times, and I believe the Bible to be true. Also, Heaven and Hell aren't places that exist in this universe. Yeah, Hell has often been described to be "down there", but it's not actually physically there. The afterlife is different than real life, and you can't find it in real life. And also answering, If someone of a different faith (for example Muslim) was to change to Christianity in latter life would they be excepted into Heaven? Yes. As stated in the Bible, the only way into heaven is through Jesus Christ. No matter who you are, what you've done, what you've believed, ect. as long as you trust Jesus Christ as your savior, your past doesn't really matter. They'd be a Christian now, and sure, I guess they'd be going to heaven then Do you as Christians believe in evolution , what is your opinions on it? Yes, I believe in evolution. There's a lot of scientific evidence that proves evolution. I do not, however, believe in the theory of evolution as I believe in creationism. What is the Christian stance on mental illness? There is a Christian stance on mental illness? Personally, I don't see how being mentally ill affects anything. You're still a person.
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Post by Palagrin on Aug 25, 2011 8:16:28 GMT
I'll just be building on Wanderer's answers here...
Jesus' teachings are still very much relevant today. The rules aren't, as they were abandoned by Jesus coming. ish. xD
If there isn't anything at all, then we won't know because we won't exist to know that we were wrong xD
The idea of Heaven and Hell being above and below is not a Christian teaching; it's just something pagan that happened to enter mainstream thought. It might also have been influenced by Greek mythology, though I think both Hades and Elysium are below in that case.
This is really opinion based, but for me, yes I believe in evolution, though I also believe it to simply be a tool that God used to create.
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dan95
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Post by dan95 on Aug 25, 2011 22:05:55 GMT
How do I get a copy of the Bible if I can't afford to buy one ? Can you be Christian without having read the Bible?
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Lemonfluff
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Post by Lemonfluff on Aug 26, 2011 0:28:52 GMT
Do you think you can choose to believe in it or do you just make a choice and end up having to fool yourself into believing it. (kinda what happened to me which is why I'm asking) What makes Christianity different to all the other religions when they all claim that you should believe in them and they are right? e.g Jehovah's witnesses. Do you believe in the old testament and if so, do you take the creation and Adam and Eve story literally? Why are you Christian/ believe in Christianity? Do you believe that your family or friends who are not Christian will go to hell? If you say yes do you really, becuase I don't see how I could live with them knowing their fate; I think if I truly believed that as a realistic possibly I would try with every fibre of my being to change them :/ I doubt it would work but I would try. What's with the whole "All sins count as one bad point" thing. Seems kinda simplistic and tbh just ignorant to believe that. Even the same sin (stealing) changes according to the situation, if your wife is dying so you steal a life saving medicine, or if you're hungry and tired, or really, really drunk or just bored and angry at the world. I dont believe that anyone is just "bad" there's always a reason so i find it hard to believe that all these induviudal cases and all the different sins can be counted as one point. Also, if you believe in evolution (the theory), was there one point when we all became human and able to enter heaven or can apes enter too? Lots of fun questions to go tediously through. Some of these questions are more to you guys personally rather than the "general" viewbecause these days everyone seems to have different opinions, all originating from the same work of fact.
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Wanderer
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Post by Wanderer on Aug 26, 2011 1:13:31 GMT
How do I get a copy of the Bible if I can't afford to buy one ? Bibles are really easily accessible; even hotel rooms have them If you were interested in reading the Bible and simply talked to a Christian, they'd be absolutely happy to produce you with one. I'm not sure if libraries have bibles though, to be honest o.o Can you be Christian without having read the Bible? Yes, you can, but you wouldn't grow as one. Do you think you can choose to believe in it or do you just make a choice and end up having to fool yourself into believing it. (kinda what happened to me which is why I'm asking) Um, I'm not gonna lie, I'm confused about what you're asking. But yes, you have a choice to believe, free will and all that. Could you rephrase that question? *is stupid* What makes Christianity different to all the other religions when they all claim that you should believe in them and they are right? e.g Jehovah's witnesses Unfortunately, my answer would be completely meaningless unless you believed. If I could answer that question in a way that is sensible for nonbelievers, everyone would be Christian and theological debates would not exist. But I can tell you that Christianity IS different. It is not just a religion in which explains what you must do to find God. In fact, it's the ONLY religion that talks about God's desire to find us - only as long as we accept that He wants a relationship with us. I am not entirely familiar with what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, but it doesn't follow what the Bible teaches, which is the truth, which is (again) meaningless unless you believed. Hopefully palagrin will come along and explain this in a way that makes more sense because I fail at life. Do you believe in the old testament and if so, do you take the creation and Adam and Eve story literally? Yeah, I believe in the OT. And I'm actually still unsure about Adam+Eve. I'd have to get back to you on that one. Why are you Christian/ believe in Christianity? Subjective evidence. God has presented Himself to me in a number of personal ways. I've felt the Holy Spirit work in my life and pull me through all the tough times. Do you believe that your family or friends who are not Christian will go to hell? If you say yes do you really, becuase I don't see how I could live with them knowing their fate; I think if I truly believed that as a realistic possibly I would try with every fibre of my being to change them :/ I doubt it would work but I would try. Yes, because that's what the Bible teaches. And like you said, I CAN'T live with myself knowing that. I've tried to talk to them about it and usually they don't listen. This is a problem for most Christians :/ Because I don't want to seem too pushy, as that will push them away; however, I know I've got to rely on God that He has some sort of plan for them. I've "sown the seed" and it's up to God to "make that seed grow." What's with the whole "All sins count as one bad point" thing. Seems kinda simplistic and tbh just ignorant to believe that. Even the same sin (stealing) changes according to the situation, if your wife is dying so you steal a life saving medicine, or if you're hungry and tired, or really, really drunk or just bored and angry at the world. I dont believe that anyone is just "bad" there's always a reason so i find it hard to believe that all these induviudal cases and all the different sins can be counted as one point. I don't really see it as ignorant. We see murdering as worse than telling a lie, right? But God sees it all as the same thing - sin, sin, sin. But the thing is, He's not going to say that one person is more evil than the other, because we ALL have sinful natures. We ALL have the nature to do wrong and commit evil and hurt and destroy. All sins are equal in his eyes, and we're all capable of committing the same evils. I feel like it would be incorrect for us to say "That person is more evil than the other because he didn't have a good reason for what he did". Can anyone really make the judgment? :/ You said that there's always a reason to commit sin, but sometimes, that reason may be selfish. We lie, we cheat, we steal; we justify our sins, saying we committed them for a good purpose, but sometimes those justifications are just excuses. But maybe in the case of one person assassinating an evil dictator seems justifiable, but is it really? Murder is murder is murder. If your wife is dying, and you're ONLY choice is to kill someone, then so be it. You're life, you're choice. Just remember that you can repent all sins. (This, however, shouldn't be used as some sort of safety net every time you sin.) Unfair as it sounds, but maybe if a loved one is dying, that was God's purpose in the first place. I dunno. Also, if you believe in evolution (the theory), was there one point when we all became human and able to enter heaven or can apes enter too? I don't believe in the theory of evolution. I don't think very many Christians do, as the stance is generally that God created the world. HOLY MOLY I spent a lot of time answering those questions... XD And I apologize if you asked a question and I gave an answer that wasn't even relevant to the question asked. I'm just really bad at putting my thoughts in words...
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Post by Palagrin on Aug 26, 2011 9:02:19 GMT
Christianity doesn't claim to be believed in; people simply see Christ and then believe, if that makes sense. Christianity is a whole lot more than just a religion; it's a way of life. And the other thing about Christianity is that it doesn't force you to believe, or punish you when you don't; so the people who DO believe, they believe for their own reasons (most probably subjective evidence). Also, I have never heard of miraculous things happening to followers of other religions, but I have seen plenty during my time as a Christian. Again, as Wanderer said, it's all about subjectivity and subjective evidence.
I do believe in the OT. But I don't take the creation story literally, because I believe it wasn't supposed to be taken literally (it's actually written as a poem, and follows quite a set pattern). I do believe in Creation though, obviously.
You'll get a lot of different answers to this, and all will be very personal.
My opinion is that whilst evolution probably took place, I do not believe that sentience and morality could have evolved; and I believe this is what makes us different from apes- and this is what God put into us, if that makes sense.
Whether animals get into heaven or not is a completely different matter, and one I've never really been too interested/caught up in.
For all the other questions, I pretty much agree with Wanderer.
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Post by Eni on Aug 26, 2011 11:13:56 GMT
How do I get a copy of the Bible if I can't afford to buy one ? Can you be Christian without having read the Bible? If you went into any church and said that to them I'm sure they'd give you one. If not I really don't think they'd be doing Christianity right. Do you think you can choose to believe in it or do you just make a choice and end up having to fool yourself into believing it. (kinda what happened to me which is why I'm asking) I think I have made a choice in the end. When I was littler I believed more simply, however growing older you ask more questions and you analysis things more closely. My point of view changed from seeing the bible as a holy missive, to seeing it as a historical document that pointed towards something beyond us. I often wonder if I'm deluded myself but I continue to study the bible closely, and to pray and for the moment I have decided to believe. I'd be really interested into how you felt you were fooling yourself into believing. I'd imagine it's wanting to believe so you ignore various arguments, which is definitely a place I've been in, but I don't feel I am any longer. Anyway, correct me if I'm making assumptions. I'm sorry Palagrin, I don't like your answer, I have friends from all different kinds of religions and if you talked to them they would say their religions also do that for them. For me the reason Christianity is different to other religions is that it is more logical to me. It's a reason that is very personal but I feel Christianity's focus is on love (obviously this has throughout history been distorted) but ultimately if there is a God I really hope he is loving and forgiving; Christianity gives me a God who is like that. When Christianity started it was trying to move away from superfluous jewish traditions, that excluded people and gave people, particularly women, really hard lives. The early church was famous for it's campaign against things such as infant sacrifice and the subjugation of women. There is a problem with conservatism in humans though (not just religious people). History continually shows us that people have an unwillingness to progress, and because religion comes with the idea of 'an ultimate truth', people use it as an excuse to not progress as society does. I believe that many branches of the modern church are scared of progressing, and thus seem outdated and even cruel to outside observers, for instance the ruckus currently surrounding homosexuality. Yes I /believe/ in the old testament, in that I believe it is God inspired and very important, no I don't believe in it literally. I have a massive ranting essay written about science and religion somewhere and I will not to completely recreate it here but to summarise it quickly, I think it's ridiculous that people can consider science to disprove God. First of all, if you believe the torah (first five books of the bible) to be God inspired (as in Moses receiving some idea from God on what to write) can you really imagine him going 'well you see here Moses there's this thing called natural selection, etc'. Genisis should not be considered as trying to deal with the scientific question of how do we exist but the existential question of /why/ do we exist. Further on people who look for miracles to prove God. I BELIEVE MIRACLES ARE IMPOSSIBLE. (This is when people saying 'but surely God can do anything'.) I believe God can do anything, HOWEVER, the fault is not with God, but with our definition of the word Miracle. A miracle, if you consider it in scientific terms is something that breaks the laws of physics, chemistry, etc. But the laws of physics and chemistry are created through observation, if something happens it is incorporated into these laws. By these definitions a miracle cannot happen, because if it did it would no longer be a miracle, we would adapt our understanding of the universe to fit it. Sorry for uber long post, I hope people read it, these are ideas I've put a lot of thought into.
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Post by Michael on Aug 26, 2011 11:44:16 GMT
Jehovah's witnesses refuse to have blood transfusions because if they are supposed to die then God will decide that. [ I can totally understand this ]
Why's this not the same for most christians?
This is something that's been bothering me for a while but I know I'm like to offend some so I'm really sorry: I'll try and put it in the nicest way possible; Is it possible [or in my opinion] / i think that some children are brainwhased into believing in the stuff their parents believe in. Shouldn't it be that you find your own path to God [as Stevie seems to be suggesting in her above post] and not the path your parents may grill into you [as Lemon could be suggesting?]
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Post by Tee Em on Aug 26, 2011 16:15:43 GMT
@michael; yes, I've seen that happen a lot. It's a pity, really, because then the child grows up thinking that religion is a chore and usually drops it during their teenager years, thinking that it's just a set of rules. I personally believe that it is about finding your own path to God, as you said. If the child is just going through the motions that their parents grilled into them, then it's not going to save them.
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